Not so bad after all...

Remember that post a long time ago about the Depressing Pregnancy. That it was stupid to get pregnant when you can't even provide for yourself? Well I guess that pregnancy had a purpose after all, cause if Rose of Sharon hadn't been pregnant, then she couldn't have...well anyway, I agreed with that post at the time, but now I take it back.
And even though it was helpful...ew

Not just another story....

GOW is rife with symbolism, themes, and motifs....flowers, the dead child, fallow fields...

Themes--when man rejects other humans, he rejects his own humanity
No man can exist without affecting mankind
Any others?

Motifs-- religion, rebirth, spring, seeds, martyrs and mothers-- What did you see?

And the moral---What is it?

DISAPPOINTING!!!

Why didn't the turtle come back?! This made me sad! Poor turtle....I wonder what happened to the poor little guy...was his parallel just dropped off after chapter 3, or did Steinbeck just forget about the turtle after that?

The end...

Looking back, would you say that Steinbeck's symbolism really helped the story or do you think it was just irrelevant nonsense?

Another Post about the Ending...

Does anyone think that Steinbeck meant to have an abrupt ending? Maybe to show that his main purpose was showing the general hardships of the time?

Dead Baby

Was anyone infuriated by the description of the dead baby:

"On a newspaper lay a blue shriveled little mummy" (603).

How awful.

Lazy ol' Steinbeck

Okay, so I thought Steinbeck had really good description and I really liked the story of the Joads. But as the book progressed, characters that weren't really developing just died or walked away. Then, the end gives no resolution to the 619 page book....
Do you think Steinbeck did it for some kind of effect or was he just lazy or had writer's block? Or some other reason?

The Ending

So, the ending... What did everyone think? I yelled when I finished the book. The book was really good though. Probably the best i have read for a school project in a long time.

Intense

Did anyone else think that all of the crops being destroyed and the rain and all that was a parallel between the migrants and their emotions toward the farmers? That whole quote about the grapes....but did it mean anger, or despair?

So what does everyone think of the ending? There are a lot of intense biblical symbols involved....like Jim Casy, Rose of Sharon and the dying man (which was kind of gross), and even the dead baby. I know this wasn't the whole point for these parts in the story, he really wanted to show the hardships that the migrants were facing and represent them in a powerful way, and I recognize that Moses was sent down the river in a basket, but what is the point for the baby? Salvation or a message I guess...?

THE END???!!!

Does anyone else think that Steinback's ending was inappropriate?

New Place, New Life.

Now that the Joads are in California, everything seems to be going up hill and better than it was in Oklahoma. Of course, it is because they are not in the middle of the madness. But Is it going to continue to get bet or are there going to be a few more bumps in the road and maybe go back down hill?

The Death of JC

In chapter 26, Jim Casey is killed because he led a rebellion (strike) against the CA police. Is his death symbolic of anything? Does it further the Bible metaphor? Is Tom's reaction symbolic?

He Kills Again

So, in chapter 26, Tom Joad kills a man (after the man kills Jim Casey). How will this affect the family? Will Tom be sent back to jail?

Casey: Christ figure or misrepresented character?

Jim Casey is being hailed as the "Christ figure" in the book. Question to ponder: did Steinbeck INTEND for Casey to sort of portray Christ, or are people today just reading WAYYY to much into it? Share your thoughts.

Title: The Grapes of Wrath

Tell me, what does this title really mean? Why did Steinbeck chose this title for his book?

Rough Times

Steinbeck describes a lot of the stuff people went through in the migrant work areas. There is just so much that goes on and he explains it so well, that maybe that even he could have suffered from all this as well, or are these just the things he saw during his life?

Steinbeck's Religion

Based on the different events in the book, and the views of the characters so far (especially Jim Casy), what do you guys think is Steinbeck's religious views? Not only religous, but his overall view of life?

The Grapes

So at the end of chapter 25, the last sentence is:

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage" (477).

What do you think this means? Is some kind of mass revolt about to break out? What is meant by "the grapes of wrath"? Whose wrath is it? What could "the vintage" be??

Gaia

Wow. This Gaia myth is totally gross. She had more children with her own children. How does that relate at all to the book? I mean all that I can see is that it is completely wrong on so many different levels.

Government Camp

So.... on page 393, the Joads are entering the government camp and the watchman is telling them about everything that is wonderful, like hot running water, wash basins, and (most importantly) no cops. Tom asks:
" Why ain't they more places like this?"
The watchman replies with " You'll have to find that out yourself."

Why is the watchman so mysterious? What do you think is wrong or bad about the camp?

Migrant Labor Camp Photographs Link

I added this link so that people would be able to compare outhouses to the actual houses migrant labors lived in.
(There had been some confusion)

So if you are confused or just want to see what their living conditions were like, check out the link.

Gaia:Myth or Metaphor?

In Greek mythology, Gaia is the Goddess of the Earth, or Mother Earth. She was said to have given birth to the human race.

The Gaia metaphor says that Earth is a living organism that is actively involved in maintaining itself.in accordance with this, our planet remains just right for life, possibly because it has life.

What do you think this has to do with the book? Does anything come to mind? Or is this all just senseless gibberish?

Goddess of weedpatch

In chapters 20-26, ma joad really starts to take charge of the family as pa's decisiveness withers; especially at weedpatch when a lot of stuff falls on her shoulders. She says that she can only maintain herself so long as tom does not reach for her. Is this ma as gaia with tom as antaeus. in myth, gaia also quarreled with her husbands for holding her children back. So even though pa joad hasn't imprisoned the joad children in the pits of hell, there may be some symbols here? even if you think it's crazy, i'd like to hear your comments if they're nice.

Understanding the Need for Pleasure

so in chapter 23, steinbeck discusses all the different ways people in the great depression have learned to have pleasure: story telling, movies, getting drunk, playing music, dancing, have sex, ect. what i wonder is, what is steinbeck trying to show through all this? does he think certain forms of pleasure are better than others? like that getting drunk is a sad way to deal with your problems? is he proud of them, in a way, for persevering in enjoying their lives?

Ma Changes Her Mind?

So earlier in the novel, Ma freaks out on Tom and Pa when they want to split up the family for a while. She wouldn't hear of it! But now, Noah left and she didn't show much emotion. Then when Connie left, she told Rose of Sharon to stop whining or she'll hit her. She seems to have lost all interest in keeping the family together. Has she given up?

Fruits

Does anyone think the incident surrounding Floyd Knowles and the fruit picking contractor is significant?

Jim Casey

He's already covered for Tom, and his role was starting to make sense. Is he coming back?

Where Art Thou, Turtle?

So what happened to the turtle? We were all so sure that the turtle was symbolic and would reappear throughout the novel. It hasn't happened. So will he come back? Would he still have symbolic significance if he did?

Another One Bites the Dust

In chapter 20, Connie becomes the latest "I'm-leaving-the-party" victim. After a fight with Rose of Sharon, Connie just walks away (literally). So the questions are: Where did he go? Will he come back? Will he die? How will this affect RoS/the baby? Is there a reason that the author keeps removing characters? Does Connie symbolize any particular group of people?

"JC JC, YOU'RE ALRIGHT BY ME..."

So...how about Jim Casey? Any ideas on his role in the novel?

Mother Joad

Where do you think Ma Joad gets her strength? Is it the land? Or is it something else?

Not sure what to write about

So how is everyone liking the book so far?
Are you tired of the detail? Are you wondering what the Joad's are gonna find when they get to California? Do you wonder how many more people will die before they finally arrive at they're destination?

Persistent, or just plain dumb?

So the Joads have come a long way already. The grandparents are both deceased, the trip has been quite difficult, and now people keep telling the family of how there is little to no work in California, and the limited amount is not even worth it. In chapter 16, the man explains to Pa how in Cali, 20,000 people try to get 800 positions. Why then do the Joads continue with their journey? Are they persistent, confident that they can salvage their lives, or. . . not?

I thought that the Myth of Anteaus (or however you spell it) was really interesting. My theory is that it is almost a parallel to the Joads. He was extremely strong as long as he remained in contact with the ground (his mother earth), but once lifted into the air he became as weak as water. This relates to the Joads because we have been talking about how Grandpa died because they took him away from the land he loved, and now Granma is dead. The myth of Antaeus has been used as a symbol of the spiritual strength which accrues when one rests one's faith on the immediate fact of things. To Antaeus the land was a form of physical strength from Mother Earth, and to the Joads it is mainly a form of strength emotionally and physically. A very close parallel when you think about it. I could be wrong though. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Antaeus

If anyone would care to shed some light on what Antaeus has to do with the book, please do tell because I just do not see the parallels.

Ma

Can you believe that Ma laid with Grandma all that time while she was dead?????? Crazy....

the Myth of Antaeus

How does the myth of Antaeus relate to Grapes of Wrath?

Dialouge

Why does Steinbeck go back and forth between dialogue without quotations and no names of people talking and real conversations. For example, in chapter 15, on page 210 Mae is having a conversation with two truck drivers, but there are no actual quotes. Later in the chapter, Mae talks to a poor family, and there are quotations and everything. I'm sure there's a reason, but what is the difference between the truck driver and the poor man?

Death #2

Okay, so by now everyone knows that the Grandma is dead. Is the fact that both old people that came to California died symbolic the fact that they were a part of the land they grew up on, an extention of the preacher's description of the grandpa when he died (that he was already dead when he left Oklahoma), or simply the author underscoring the difficulty of the trip by killing off the old people.

Oh, and take a guess: who, if anyone, is going to die next??

The cat that got away....

During one of the chapters Al tries to run over a cat, but misses and the cat runs off unharmed. Could the cat getting away from the car perhaps symbolize something?

ANIMALS

What is with people swerving to hit animals??? Turtles, cats, dogs, then at the end of chapter 18 a rattlesnake...... WHY???

This was cool

I thought that the link to the actual dust storm footage was pretty neat! It's amazing to think of having to live in all of that dust!

Does anyone else think that the Wilson's are going to be significant later in the novel? Would Steinbeck randomly just throw these people in with the Joads, only for them to be of little significance or importance to the overall progress of the plot?

Noah

What is the purpose of Noah leaving the family when they get into California? This is around the beginning of chapter 18. Noah just says he can't go on and that he wants to stay by the river. Is it supposed to signify that California is bad for the family? Noah wasn't even a main character. He didn't further the plot any even when he was with the family. What is the purpose of his leaving?

Dust Bowl Women

So does anyone have any theories as to what may be wrong with Mrs. Joad? Before they left the house the Mr. Casy alluded to the fact that she looked sick, and then when she walks into the bedroom Steinbeck takes great care to describe the change in Mrs. Joad's body. Do you think she is really sick or just tired?

Really Cool Link!

I don't know who posted the one that says children+ depression= sadness, but it is a really cool site! You should check it out... the part with the letters from children to Mrs. Roosevelt is really neat.

The Cars, The Food, The People

In Chapter 15 the different types of cars that are traveling on HWY 66 are discussed in great detail. The Lincoln Zephyr, my personal favorite, is discussed here more and seems to be a favorite of Steinbeck also. It is a good car. Steinbeck also describes the different food joints along the side of the road. In the diner owned by Mae and Al in which the poor family stopped in to get a loaf of bread, Al and Mae are nice to the family and gives them a 15 cent loaf for 10 cents and two 5 cent pieces of candy for a penny. Was Steinbeck using this situation in which Mae and Al were nice to them and showed them sympathy to contrast the mean owners who had kicked the poor farmers off their land? Was this just to show that there were still some nice people out there or did it have a deeper meaning?

Diner

Anyone think the whole chapter about the diner has any part in the future of the book?
Maybe it's where the Joads may run into trouble, that's my guess.

IITYWYBAD??

Does anyone have any idea what IITYWYBAD means or why steinbeck used it? I'm lost here.

To California We Go

I am amazed that Joad is going to break his probation and go with his family. Why do you think that is?

Why Did the Wilson's Car Break Down?

In chapter 16 the Wilson's car breaks down. The Joad's homemade truck is still running fine but the Wilson's touring car blows a con-rod bearing. Why did Steinbeck have the Wilson's car break down and not the Joad's? If the Joad's car would have broken down this would have furthered the Joads' trouble and would have caused the reader to have more sympathy for the Joads. But it is the Wilsons that break down and it is Tom and the Preacher who stay with the car to fix it while the rest of the group goes on ahead. Is Steinbeck trying to express the idea that it is the survival of the fittest in rough times and if the strong, the Joads, help the weak, the Wilsons, then they will become weak as well? Does Steinbeck really want to express the idea that if you are nice and help someone else then you will be screwed because of it?

Making the Best of a Bad Situation

I was particularly impressed with Tom Joad's description of making the best of a bad situation (245). The one-eyed man, feeling sorry for himself, complains constantly about his life. Tom turns to him and tells him that his life wouldn't be so bad if he didn't make is so bad. The reference of "a one-legged whore" was actually pretty relevent. It was funny. "Ya like to feel sorry for yaself. There ain't nothin' the matter with you. Buy yaself some white pants."

Is this the embodiment of the spirit of the Joad family? A representation of the ability to edure druing hard times that they possess?

A Depressing Pregnancy

So when times are rough, go to California.
If times are really rough, get pregnant, then go to California.
That's right! When you can barely afford to feed your own face, (Rose of Sharon) might as well have make another hungry child, as if there are not enough starving people during this time. Who knows, maybe good will come of the kid. Maybe it will be the next Rockefeller and bring the whole family out of poverty. I doubt it, but who knows?

That poor dog...

When the Joad's stop at a gas station their dog runs into the highways and is instantly hit by a car, however, no one seems to really care. Do you guys think people back in those days didn't value their animals as much as we did? Or do you think they weren't really attached to their dog? And even so, why didn't the sight of the dog getting killed not make the Joad's sad? Is it perhaps that people during that time were desensitized by death?

Trouble With Buttons

ok, i'm sure there was some sort of significance attached to grampa's difficulty buttoning up his pants, shirt, and long underwear, but i have no idea what it was. and then the part about him scratching himself...didn't really feel like i needed to know that. can anyone help me out here?

No Law in Oklahoma

When Muley came into the story and the three men stayed at the old Joad house the police came to the house to check out the fire and see if anybody was at the house. Muley talked about shooting the cop, Willy, and said that he had done it before. During the Dustbowl era in the United States did this type of lawlessness actually occur or was Steinbeck just trying to add something to the story? The way Steinbeck described it sounded like the Old West instead of the United States in the mid 1930s.

What Up's With Gradpa?

When the Joads where first taking about going to California Grandpa was excited about going and wanted to squirt grapes all down his face. But when it was time to leave he did not want to leave and had to be druged to get on the truck. Later down the road Grandpa dies and the Joads say it is because he was taken away from his land and was heartbroken. If Grandpa was so upset about leaving his land that it caused him to die why did he want to leave it in the beginning? This did not make sense and if there was any symbolic meaning in his death I think this made the meaning unclear.

Realization

Okay..... this may be a totally out-there comparison, but around page 174 in chapter 13, the Joads are talking to the Gasoline guy.... before it had described him as having " brown corduroy pants, suspenders, a polo shirt, and a cardboard sun helmet". Then on page 174 it says "And he say for the first time the fat man's cheap washed pants and his cheap polo shirt and his paper hat". While before the man had seemed well dressed, he was really shabby and poor. Will this happen with their final destination? California seems like it will be new and nice and a bright, shiny new future, but in reality will it be just be as shabby and poor as their previous home?

so im finally caught up and im interested to see how this whole journey to california thing ends up...of course poor grandpa had to kick the bucket..

Car Lot???

Ok I realize this was a little ways back in the book, but what was with the car sale thing? Was it realy necessary? What in the world did it relate to anyway?

WHY!!! oh goodness WHY?!?!

What is the purpose of grandpas dying? I don't understand why he had to die?

The Odd Chpters

In chapters such as 7, 9, and 12 Steinbeck uses third person to tell about events such as the car dealership, HWY 66, and the farmers selling their possessions. These chapters are obviously relevant to the story of the Joads summing up past chapters and foreshadowing upcoming chapters. But are the people that he discussed in these chapters the Joads, even though he does not say their name, or are they nameless to represent that a lot of people during the era were in the same situation that the Joads were in? And do these chapters seem a little repetitive since they are just a review of what he talked about in past chapters and just tell the reader what is going to happen to the Joads in the upcoming chapters? Is he using these chapters to make the book longer or is he trying to accomplish something with these odd chapters?

Good or Bad Decision??

So Tom is breaking parole to go with his family. Besides the obvious reasons of getting put back in jail if he gets caught, are there any other negative effects to his decision?? Is there a positive side??

Muley

Does anyone else think that Muley's purpose has run out?

The Family "Reunion"

I really liked the family reuniting. It really hit close to home for me because I am close to my family. Reading about all the different people seeing Joad for the first time in a long time really took me down memory lane. Joad also parallels to someone in my family. This story is also starting to make some sense now that I can truly relate the family and Joad back to my own family and relatives.

Alive and Dead

Was anyone else particularly impressed with Steibeck's descriptions of alive and dead? How the farms are dead now that they are empty, about the man working the fields that are not his land, and how the grandpa was dead as soon as he left the land.

"There is a warmth of life in the barn, and the heat and the smell of life. But when the motor of a tractor stops, it is as dead as the ore it came from. The heat goes out of it like the living heat that leaves a corpse" (157).

"But the machine man, driving a dead tractor on land he does not know and love, understands only chemistry... When the corrugated iron doors are shut, he goes home, and his home is not the land" (158).

"He died the minute you took 'im off the place... He was breathin'... but he was dead. He was that place, an' he knowed it" (199).

Is it foreshadowing of more death to come or simply description in relation of the death of the grandpa?

Car Salesman

Does the car salesman have anything to do with the actual story line. I am confused. Please help.

Family Government

so how does everyone feel about the family government? i don't know, i think it's pretty crap that the grandpa still sits at the head of the "counsil" even though he is insane. also, the thing about old Tom and uncle Jon (i think thats his name...) sitting in the front while the pregnant girl stand on the bed of the truck...that is stupid. skrew tradition or whatever that is.

The car

Do you think that they'll make it all the way? The car is all falling apart, and it seems like something steinbeck would do (to make the car break down, I mean). What do you think?

The Family and things...

So in chapter eight Tom goes home and talks to his parents about being paroled from prison, his mother feels that he could be insane because she once knew someone with a child who went insane in prison. They also fear that he had broken out illegally and he had to reassure them that was not the case. So after that explanation...the point remains that when he came to the house no one recognized him...What does that mean exactly? How could someone not recognize their own son? Have they moved on and completely forgotten him? How would that make Tom feel?

Car salesman

So does the used car salesman have any significance other than to sell the farmers crappy cars?

Will Tom get to go to California? Or will he stay?

In the book, around...I believe Chapter 9 our characters find out that Tom might not be able to go with them because Al overheard people talking about Tom and how his parole wouldn't allow him to leave the state.
How many think that Tom will be able to go with the family with California? How many thing the latter and if so, what did you think Tom will do if he stays?

House

Okay, I know this is sort of from a while back in the book.... but the very first paragraph of Chapter 6 (page 54) describes a "small unpainted house...mashed at one corner, and...pushed off its foundations so that it slumped at an angle." Is this the very same house described in the other part of the story, the one without Joad? The one that was run over by the bulldozer? Or is it just a similar situation?

Cat?

So was the cat supposed to be another symbolism thing? or was it just there to be there?

Why all the detail in the first place?

My question is why do we really care about all the detail? Why does Steinbeck focus on this detail so much? It seems that when we read we look only at all the detail vs. the actual meaning of the words and the book? SoO!! If he left out so much of the detail would the book be the same? Better? what does it affect?

Why all the detail in the first place?

My question is why do we really care about all the detail? Why does Steinbeck focus on this detail so much? It seems that when we read we look only at all the detail vs. the actual meaning of the words and the book? SoO!! If he left out so much of the detail would the book be the same? Better? what does it affect?

The Cat and the Turtle

Is there any significance to the cat trying to eat the turtle, then giving up? It is some sort of foreshadowing that means that Joad (as the turtle) will face challenges, overcome them, and they will give up (allowing the family to live happily ever after)? Or am I just reading too much into this....

alrighty well yet again ive done nothing and havent even opened the book..so when i finally decide to assert myself ill let ya kno

Killing of Rabbits

Ok... Being a vegetarian has some drawbacks when I read this book. The author insists on going into detail of how the skinning of the rabbit occurs. Why, might I ask, must the author put me through this pain and torture?? Is there a reason to the detail of the rabbits or not?

Jim Casy's 'prayer'

Jim Casy's 'prayer' was more his thoughts on holyness than anything else. Granma was saying things like "Hallelujah" and everyone was waiting for Casy to say Amen. Steinback wrote that this was just because everyone was used to waiting and Granma had just "timed her responses to the pauses".
Does the prayer and how the family acts have symbolism? Does it say something more about Steinback's religious beliefs?

Jim Casy's prayer p.109-111

Hmm...

The preacher and Tom bring up the conversation involving girls and sexual issues. I'm a little lots here. Is it symbolism or just a couple of dirty perv's??

What was Steinbeck trying to get across to the reader when the preacher came into the story and told Tom Joad about his loss of the Holy Spirit and slepping with lots of girls in the grass? Was Steinbeck trying to attack Christianity by this or did it have something to relate to the Joads lossing their land and the absence of God in that situation?

well here it goes..

ill post on this whenever ive actually read it alrighty

Steinbeck's religious beliefs

On page 32, the preacher and Joad are talking and the preacher poses his "radical" ideas about God:

"Why do we got to hang it on God or Jesus? Maybe it's all men an' all women we love; maybe that's the Holy Sperit- the Human Sperit- the whole shebang. Maybe all men got one big soul ever'body's a part of"

Do you think that this is Steinbeck's personal belief about God?

The Purpose of Tom Joad and the ex-preacher's Talk

What is the purpose of their talk about taking girls to the grass?????!!

I think it has something to do with the sins of humanity, but is there more to it than just talk?

...Description??

Does anyone notice how Steinbeck is devoting entire chapters to description of setting, clothing, and emotion?? All of chapter 5 was devoted to the mechanical "rape" of the countryside and of the farmland. Does anyone find the whole pathos approach incredibly effective??

How about the turtle

Steinbeck spends a lot of time ont he turtle--you already know this book is about a journey. Do you think that the turtle's journey might in any way symbolize and/or parallel that of the Joads?