Grapes...
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Grapes...
This your forum for discussion. Although I will toss in questions, I will expect you to be the main contributors to the blog. You are expected to post and comment at least twice (1x each) every time we are in the lab as a class. Naturally, you are required to keep comments germane to the novel and to treat your classmates' opinions with respect. Have fun.
Grapes...
Grapevines
- Rage-The Ghost of Tom Joad
- Save this link--it will be part of a writing prom
- Battle Hymn of the Republic
- Comic - Steinback stuck on the Title Page
- Migrant Labor Camp Photographs
- Big Rock
- "Dusty Old Dust"
- Guthrie lyrics
- Dust Bowl Refugee
- Dust Bowl Era Footage
- Songs to Lighten the Mood
- Blowing Down The Dusty Old Road
- Al Capone's Photo Gallery
- children + depression = sadness!
- Kelsey's Photos
- Vanessa's link
- Running from the Dust
- Pictures From the Dust Bowl Era by Dorthea Lange
- Helpful Guide to Book
- Dorothea Lange pictures
- A Depression Art Gallery
- Dust Bowl Slide Show o.O
- Depression Photo Essay
- A site about Woody Guthrie
- Dust Storm Disaster Lyrics
- Dust Can't Kill Me
- Dust Bowl Migration
- #4
- Everything you need to know and more
- #2
- Excerpts from "The Dust Bowl, Men, Dirt and Depression"
- dustbowl pics
- "Tom Joad" by Woody Guthrie
- Pictures From the Dust Bowl Taken by Dorthea Lange
- Actual Dust Storm Footage From The Dustbowl Era
Assignments and Reading
- Done by Friday
- Chapter 28 by May 2
- Final Projects due May 21
- Gaia or Gaea. Look them up. Think about it.
- Through chapter 25 by April 30
- Through 22 by Friday, April 27
- While you are on the computer today, look up myth of Antaeus.
- Through 21 by April 25
- Through 19 by April 23
- Add a link
- Through chapter 13 by Monday, April 17
- Chapters 6-8 for April 9
68 comments:
Yes. I think this is foreshadowing the Joab's journey. I think that the driver of the car who went out of his way to hit the turtle is also foreshadowing that they are going to get no help from other people.
I think the turtle does have some symbolic meaning, although I'm not sure it has to do with Joad (or however the heck you spell it). Maybe some sort of parallel to something that had been happening in the world?? But anyway, I'm pretty sure that the turtle symbolizes more than Joad.
The turtle does symbolize the Joads journey. Even though we have not gotten to their actual journey yet, the back of my mind answers the question of the turtle and what it symbolizes. The turtle is traveling along and he faces many dangers along the way, similiar to what the Joads are facing.
The turtle at one point crawls up an embankment, becoming more desperate and frantic as the slope became steeper and steeper. Perhaps the Joads will be forced to climb their own hill, in a sense. Maybe they will be faced with a terrible dilemma that must be dealt with.
i think that this turtle symbolizes Joad's journey to come...forshadowing dangers and problems along the way.
Yes, but maybe they won't move as slow. Since this is a novel and all novels have problems, they may just move as slow as the turtle.
The journey of the turtle symbolizes the way the Joad's journey will be like. The driver swerved out of his way to hit the turtle, and this shows that the Joad's journey will be dangerous and people will be out to cause them harm.
Ok... question. Why must the author describe the shirt in chapter two so vividly? I mean, it is a shirt. Why all the detail?
I think that the turtle is a very important character in the book and that his presence and journey is a parallel to the Joads'. That is his purpose in the novel...to be the little thing that suddenly appears in the novel, and be the humor of the story, and the tie to the Joads'.
When the turtle flips over what exactly does that symbolize? Trouble to come?
I think it does have some symbolism to the upcoming journey. Haven't made up my mind if it actually has to do with Joad yet. The fact that the author spent an entire chapter talking about this turtle, has to mean something to the rest of the book.
Well, obviously the turtle is mentioned for a reason. The fact that a car "intentionally" tried to hit him probably symbolizes that he believes that someone or something is out to get him. The evil driver symbolizes the maliciousness of society and the people in it.
The turtle does symbolize/ foreshadow some of the trials and tribualtions to come for the Joads in their quickly approaching journey. The turtle attempting to cross the road is very symbolic. Perhaps in the approaching journey there will be people who go out of their way to help them, as well as there will be people that go out of their way to hurt them. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Yes, I do think that the turtle's journey will parallel the Joad's journey. I think its struggle to get across the road is foreshadowing struggles that the Joads will have.
In response to ace's question...i think maybe he was just bored. lol. JK. Anyway, maybe it was his way of making you pay more attention to detail, it may seem irrelevant now but down the road (the book that is) it may have a purpose.
i think the turtle plays an important role in the book.his journey is a parallel to the joads journey in that they both will face many hardships along the way
why a turtle?
Responding to Ace, the description is part of the author's style. It may not always be necessary to the plotline, but its purpose is to create a vivid picture of the world the Joads live in. In this way, the author is brilliantly successful.
So does the turtle killing the red ant that went in its shell (as self-defense) represent the person he said that he killed (probably in self-defense)?
In response to kamerant's question, I think that the turtle flipping over may symbolize that the Joads may hit some rough spots throughout their journey. Although it also may have nothing to do with anything and the author may just find it funny to make us think bad things are going to happen. He he.
The turtle obviously symbolizes a journey of some sort. That's a given. But I think there must be something more that ties the book together somehow. Otherwise I doubt that Steinbeck would spend entire chapters on just the turtle. Not that I mind, turtles are cute, but surely there is something more there....??
O.K. question time-While the red ant crawling into the turtle's shell and the turtle getting ticked and killing it was mildly humorous, is there another symbol in that or was it just a random turtle-ism?
Maybe Steinback just wanted to use the turtle to tell the reader more about the people's way of life in OK. How even though the dust hits them like a truck and turns them over, they get back up.
To jes usa ves, a turtle is symbolic because it is only hard on the outside. It is very vulnerable, travels slowly, and is susceptible to many dangers. Using a lion would not have sent the same message lol.
responding to camen....even if it is his style, why take so much time to describe something that seems irrevlevant to the plot?
I agree with Ali about the turtle. Why NOT a turtle?? Because turtles rock that's why! lol JK
In response to alibama's question, the red ant could symbolize the person that he said he killed. Although, it could mean that along the way, the Joads may be forced to kill somebody in "self-defense."
In response to jesUSAves... why not a turtle? It's a pretty cool stinky thing and i think everyone has an idea that the life of a turtle is pretty hard. So maybe Steinbeck is just trying to play off of peoples established ideas about the life of a turtle.
I think that the turtle does symbolize the Joads' journey. I think that the Joads' will have difficulties just like the turtle. The part where the turtle planted the seed seemed, to me, to symbolize that Joad planted the seed of his upcoming journey.
In response to ace's post..umm i really just dont get why he had to explain anything as much as he did.like the fact that they put socks in the window sills to keep dust out..who really cares??not i
responding to Kathy cat 42, the author is just shadowing what is going to come in the book. It's is a small symbolism of the whole book. It might not be necessary, but why not include it?
In response to jesusaves question: I think he used a turtle because when he was writing the book, Steinbeck saw a turtle on his deck or something, and thought it would have been great, and it is. The turtle could have been anything else, just they way the story can relate to the to the turtle...bell...to be cont.
Ok so Mrs. C just talked about the seeds the turtle is carrying. Maybe those symbolize how the Joads are croppers and are going to try to grow those seeds??
...Or the Joads are missionaries and their journey is to "disperse" Christianity along their journey.
Response to blackjack:If the Joads are missionaries, then why did what's-his-name just come out of jail... unless he was sort-of the prodigal son.
disclaimer: spark notes are amazing when you don't have enough time to read the book, but do not provide much detail.
The turtle likely is a parallel for the Joads and their future journey out of the Dust Bowl. He didn't seem to really know where he was going, just that he had to go. He didn't stop when the first car missed him nor when the second finally hit him. But then... that's just me.
i don't know that the turtle is so much a symbol for just joad as it is for everyone in the great depression. they kept on trying, but the dust was always killing them (by ruining their crops/ livelihood). the desperation led some ppl to turn malicious (the swerving driver) and take their faliure out on everyone else. this causes more ppl to turn malicious...it's a viscious cycle.
I didn't really think of the turtle being a symbol of an event yet to come, but one thing that really caught my attention was the fact that the seeds he carried with him fell into the ground and dirt was covered over them as if the turtle was planting them. Perhaps the turtle symbolizes the main character. I really don't know where this story is going because the only grapes of wrath I'm familiar with is the one on Veggie Tales, but I'm suspecting that it has something to do with people worrying about crops.
Anyways, the turtle did seem like it was going through a lot of trouble, especially when it got hit by the car. Which by the way, did anyone, besides me, find him getting hit by the car hilarious?
Perhaps the car hitting the turtle was foreshadowing ppl not helping him, but I think the car may symbolize something even bigger. My question, tho, is what?
i think that the turtle has tons of symbolism. i think that the turtle journey is a forshadowing of what will happen later in jobs life. For example the car that went out of it's way to hit the turtle represent people that will go out of the way to hurt Joab. I think the turtle struggling to up the hill represnts how thing will get more and more difficult for Joab and i think that the turtle killing the red ant in his shell represents how he will have to hurt some on in order to survie.
i think the reason the shirt is described in so much detail is becuase clothing is an important part of culture and by understanding clothing we can better understand a culture
well, jes usa ves, i think a turtle was really the only animal that would work. i mean, it has a protective shell it can go into (there are endless symbol possibilities there), it's nice and slow, so it's not hard to imagine it almost getting hit, but not necessarily getting hurt (slow is also the way time/life would seem to pass for ppl living in the great depression)...it's just an optimal choice!
Hey how's goin' kids?? I just wanted to say that I thought it was wicked awesome when the turtle escaped the psycho truck driver due to his amazing shell...lol...
I found the turtle being hit by the car extremely funny. I laughed my head off. Yes, I fully realize that this makes me a terrible person. I don't care.
The turtle definitely has a lot of symbolism. It also has some very significant foreshadowing, particularly in the obstacles that the turtle faces. Dreamcrusher, I agree that the turtle seems to symbolize everyone in the Great Depression. I think that that's a good summation.
Steinbeck points out that the turtle doesn't yet know its destination, and neither do the Joads. Though they both know that they should keep moving and take whatever comes along. B-)
Responding to courtcourt711 with the question about the red ant: While I'm sure that is was more than mere "turtle-ism", I couldn't tell you what it is supposed to mean...
The turtle is probably a parallel, and I have to agree with the symbolism prvided by "Fool Killer". But then again, it could just be a turtle walking down the road.
I meant to say Christians starting a journey to spread the religion. All I am saying is that they have a goal for their journey and they may be leaving something behind along the way.
Isn't it more likely that the turtle would be crushed by the truck instead of thrown to the side?
I think that the turtle symbolizes the Joads journey to a great extent. When the turtle was trying to get up to the road it represented the Joad's boy's hardship of getting out of jail and trying to fit back into society, which was the road for the turtle. The person that missed the turtle on purpose represents the people in life that will help the Joads and not judge them on their past. The person that tried to hit the turtle represents the people in life that will treat the Joads unfairly based on their past and try to be mean to them. Both of these events happened almost at the same time to the turtle which represents that there can be people in life that will both treat the Joads nicely and unfairly. The person may be nice to the Joads just to learn about their past and then judge them on it and treat them mean. This was demonstrated in the book by the truck driver that picked the Joads boy up just to prove to the Joads boy that he knew he just got out of prison. The truck driver was trying to prove to the Joads boy that he would not fit into society based on his past.
Just based on these first three chapters is Steinbeck going to have a sypathetic attitude towards the Joad's boy that just got out of prison? Does the boy deserve any sypathy in the first place since he is an ex-con? And why does this thing not have spell check?
LowRider, I must say that I don't think he deserves sympathy (because he is an ex-con). I would also like to let you know that if you use Firefox, it has a built-in spell checker.
So about the turtle carrying the seeds...I know there is a symbolic or metaphoric explanation to this, but i haven't quite figured it out yet. What I am focusing on right now is the fact that the turtle dropped like three seeds, and then proceeded to cover them with dirt when his shell dragged across them.....???
courtcourt, it might be symbolic of Christian missionaries. When Christians talk about mission work, they often call it 'planting seeds'. The fact that this is accidental might even be a parallel to that. I don't know. Just a guess.
The poor little turtle! This clearly is foreshadowing the struggles Joad will encounter, probably in the near future. The turtle will probably re-appear somewhere in the story, as will problems for Joad.
So will the turtle come back? It seems as if Joad has already experienced some problems, so will that affect or advance his difficulties?
I think the turtle's journey symbolizes the journey that Joab will have to go through in his life. The part where the driver swerves to hit the turtle foreshadows that there will be people that will go out of their way to harm Joab. And the part where the driver swerves to miss the turtle foreshadows that there will be people in Joab's life that will look out for him and try to keep him out of trouble.
Will there be more of the turtle throughout the book? Let's hope so, except hopefully no more about people intentionally trying to run him over. Poor little turtle!
what was the significance of the old preacher and Jode talking under the tree?
Question. What is teh significance of the preacher and Tom talking?
Chapter 4 was very interesting. Tom and the preacher talked about sex and girls a bunch. I am not sure why. Anyway, chapter 4 was very intriguing and descriptive.
The ex-preacher and Tom Joad talking told us a lot about Tom and why he killed a guy. It also talks about the sins of humanity.Perhaps the view the preacher has on the great spirit of man is the view that Steinback either had or people in his time had.
I think that the fact the turtle kept escaping and Tom kept catching him and confining him again represents something, I just don't know what...
Kitsune, I for one thought the turtle getting run over was very hilarious!
Steinbeck seems to be as much of an anti-Christian as Mark Twain was. The whole universal spirit thing reeked of Hinduism...
well i found the analogy to the bank to be kinda funny. just the fact that he calls it a monster is hilarious to me. i found chapter 5 to be interesting, mainly because he talks about how the bank is making them move off their land and the author uses a lot of pathos to get the reader to feel what the land owners feel.
Hmmm...not so much an anti-Christian as a pro-his own beliefs, in my opinion.
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